Thursday, October 17, 2013

Why Tink's good intentions were so bad(but it was fate)

~The path to hell is paved with good intentions.~

(I was half awake and half asleep thinking about this topic just before I got up this morning and wrote this, so if it's weird or incoherent, that's why.)

(And BTW, I've blacked out the spoilers, so highlight those parts if you want to see them.)

Pathological altruists think that because they believe themselves to be good, then all their good intentions are also good, regardless of the consequences.  If they had chosen to do the "bad" thing instead of the "good" thing, then everyone's lives would have actually been better.

When Regina went out to her balcony and was pounding the railing out of pain and frustration and the balcony railing broke loose and she fell, if Tink hadn't intervened, Regina would have been dead. She would never have become the Evil Queen and hundreds if not thousands of peeps lives would have been different.  Lot's of peeps not dead.

So Regina is saved from death. But then Tink used the stolen pixie dust to show Regina who her next true love would be.  What if Regina actually did go in to meet him?  Well then, likely she would not have killed the king, Snow would not have gone on the run as a bandit, she would not have met Charming, they would not have had Emma, Emma would not have had Henry, Hood would not have met Marian, they would not have had Roland, etc.

Tink's good intentions would have had drastic consequences for everyone's timelines.  It's like breaking the Prime Directive or going back in time and changing something.  It screws everything up in the future.  I think this is why the Blue Fairy was so angry with Tink and took away her wings and magic, because this was the second time she had done something like this.  (Probably the first time was giving pixie dust to Pan, but we shall see!)

Anyway, I think Tink saving Regina from falling to her death was supposed to happen. That was fated to be.

I initially liked Tink, but she did what she did without regard for the consequences, then got all pissy with Regina in Neverland because Regina didn't do what Tink thought she should have done.  You can't expect people to make decisions based on what you think is best for them.  What happened to Tink wasn't Regina's fault.  It was Tink's fault.  She chose to disobey the Blue Fairy and reaped the consequences.  And blaming Regina for also ruining her true love's life as well is 100% wrong in my opinion.  I don't think his life was ruined.  I think he lived his life as he was supposed to have lived it.  And he and Regina are not dead yet.  I don't think their relationship was supposed to have happened back then in FTL(see my comments in the thread below).  It's supposed to happen some time in the future.

I can't stand pathological altruism. This is part of the reason why I hate "good" characters so much: 

"...The corruption of the good by the belief in their own infallible goodness is the most bloody dangerous pitfall in the human spectrum. Once you have conquered all your sins, pride is the one which will conquer you. A man starts off deciding he is a good man because he makes good decisions. Next thing, he's convinced that whatever decision he makes must be good because he's a good man. Most of the wars in the world are caused by people who think they have God on their side. Always stick with people who know they are flawed and ridiculous." --Helen Fielding

"One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient. In fact, a man convinced of his virtue even in the midst of his vice is the worst kind of man" --Charles M. Blow

24 Comments:

Anonymous arekino said...

Are the parts of the text that are in bold also spoilers? I'm not sure I should continue reading it if that's the case.

I send you the Ominous Question in the mail BTW.

Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger Xul said...

^ Yeah, since my blog is white text on a black background instead of vice-versa like in the editor, I kinda messed that up a bit when I first published it. :/

Plus, I was half asleep. I have it blotted out now. Probably a little late for you. :(

But hey! Read away! You'll probably forget what I said here anyway by the time you get to see the actual episode. ;P

Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:58:00 PM  
Blogger Xul said...

Okay, email answered.

I think I must have brain damage or something. I can't figure out how to black out the text I want blacked out. I have it "whited" out and it looks wonky to me even though it's more obvious where the spoilers are blotted out. Oy vey! I give up. :/

Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:40:00 PM  
Anonymous arekino said...

Sorry, nephews are sleeping over. Will read and respond tomorrow. :)

Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:27:00 PM  
Anonymous arekino said...

This is part of the reason why I hate "good" characters so much

Like which ones? The other day I watched this "Jack Reacher" movie and I found that character utterly obnoxious in some ways.

Perfection is for the gods, I tend to remind myself.

Most of the wars in the world are caused by people who think they have God on their side.

Well, nobody thinks of themselves as "The Bad Guys" unlesss they're sociopaths and they just don't care. I'm not sure what exactly goes on in the head a pathological altruist. Do they have a blind spot, a fear of failure? Are they just stupid? They obviously do not have their priorities straight.

Friday, October 18, 2013 7:40:00 AM  
Anonymous arekino said...

It's babysitting night tonight so if I seem a bit absent then that's why. ;)

Friday, October 18, 2013 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger Xul said...

Like which ones?

I can't think of any specific one off the top of my head, it's just that that "quality" seems to be SOP for the way "good" guys are written.

Do they have a blind spot, a fear of failure? Are they just stupid? They obviously do not have their priorities straight.

Here, I could also throw in that quote by CS Lewis about the 'moral busybodies' who torment others mercilessly with a clear conscience because they believe they are doing it for your own good.

Any time someone is on a mission to make the world a better place and are willing to force others to do it, they are truly evil and don't even see it. Just look at Marxism, Communism, etc.

People cannot be forced into doing "good". People have free will and can only do good because they choose to do so.

It's babysitting night tonight so if I seem a bit absent then that's why. ;)

Thursday and Friday? They got an early start on the weekend! Oh well, have fun wrangling! ;P

Friday, October 18, 2013 1:37:00 PM  
Anonymous arekino said...

Any time someone is on a mission to make the world a better place and are willing to force others to do it, they are truly evil and don't even see it.

Sounds like something an anarchist would say. Or an anarchocapitalist maybe. I can understand you being an anti-authoritarian given your experience with your mother.

People cannot be forced into doing "good".

I'm going to politely disagree with that. :)

They got an early start on the weekend!

Yeah, Mommy and Daddy like to have their fun. :)

Saturday, October 19, 2013 5:39:00 AM  
Blogger Xul said...

Sounds like something an anarchist would say. Or an anarchocapitalist maybe.

I'm hardly an anarchist. Anarchocapatalist...maybe a bit closer. ;P It's not that I'm against authority. 'Just' authority--meaning one that is *not* manipulating laws for the benefit of a few--is fine in my book. I don't need a lot of laws and a huge govt to live my life. I'm not a baby. I don't need to be infantilized by a narcissistic govt. I'm quite libertarian leaning in my political views.

I'm going to politely disagree with that. :)

Are you saying it's okay to *force* people to be good? It seems a little inconsistent from what you said in the last comments thread regarding Regina and Graham:

"It's all about having power over someone. Making it so they can't say 'No'. It's still rape. It's still not funny."

Forcing someone to do something they don't want to do just because you think it's "good" is akin to rape in my book. Institutionalized head-fucking kinda rape.

I'm also going to agree to disagree with you. You may be wrong here, but I still like ya. ;P ;D :)

Yeah, Mommy and Daddy like to have their fun. :)

It certainly seems that way. What are they up to this time?

Saturday, October 19, 2013 12:54:00 PM  
Anonymous arekino said...

Are you saying it's okay to *force* people to be good?

Are you saying there should be no police presence? Just knowing that you may be caught stealing or killing or raping is enough to stop a lot of people from being bad. It's unfortunate that the number of crimes people don't commit never show up in the statistics. :)

Forcing someone to do something they don't want to do just because you think it's "good" is akin to rape in my book.

In my book a rape is a sexual assault, specifically. There's no "akin". And it's not possible to say whether in general forcing someone to do something is good or bad. It depends completely on the specifics of the situation.

You may be wrong here, but I still like ya. ;P ;D :)

Right back at ya. ;P ;D :)

What are they up to this time?

Thursday Daddy went to a goodbye party from work and Mommy had to work. Friday they both went out playing darts at a local cafe. Looks like I've got the weekend off. What about you?

Saturday, October 19, 2013 1:14:00 PM  
Blogger Xul said...

BTW, was reading at the PD forum the other night and came across these two threads which give a bit of insight into the way I am since I've had similar experiences:

http://outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=21664.0

http://outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=21663.0

The second one is by an English bloke who is a lot like me in a lot of ways and especially in the Wing Chun philosophy. :)

Saturday, October 19, 2013 1:31:00 PM  
Blogger Xul said...

^ Hey, you snuck that in while I was putting my other comment in!

Just knowing that you may be caught

That is not 'forcing' IMO. That is putting a consequence to an action. It will deter some because they 'choose' to avoid the consequence. Making laws does not stop people from committing crimes, it only assigns a consequence. There are still murders, rapes, robberies etc. There are always those who will choose to do whatever they want regardless of consequences.

And it's not possible to say whether in general forcing someone to do something is good or bad.

No, it's evil. Look at all the assholes who wanted to create their own versions of utopia and those who didn't want to go along with it were killed as a result. Look at Communism. They were going to make a "workers paradise". More like hell on earth. Millions dead because of some idealistic asshole and his unnatural philosophy.

What about you?

Yesterday I spent most of the day cleaning--sweep and mop the floor, wash rugs, cull some crap.

Today, I'm supposed to shred a big box of papers and assorted crap.

Also, I'm having lots of fun arguing with you! ;P

It's weird, normally when I disagree with someone on the internet I get a massive anxiety response. I used to be not so good with conflict of any kind. I always have the feeling of "getting in trouble" like when I was a kid in school. Lately, I haven't been getting it. I didn't get it when I was commenting on the OUAT forums and today I'm having an absolute blast disagreeing with you! Score one for self improvement and recovery! Huzzah! ;P

Saturday, October 19, 2013 1:50:00 PM  
Anonymous arekino said...

That is not 'forcing' IMO.

Okay. So you mean more like putting a gun to a person's head? Isn't that what the police do eventually if you don't follow the law?

those who didn't want to go along with it were killed as a result.

Which is what always happens if you don't follow the law, eventually. The main problem that Utopian Assholes have is that they always make the laws of the land so strict and extreme that too many people are unable to live with them.

Also, I'm having lots of fun arguing with you! ;P

Cool. :)

normally when I disagree with someone on the internet I get a massive anxiety response.

Yeah, I get that too usually. I've been commenting on reddit for a little over 7 years now and I still get an adrenalin rush every time someone responds to a comment of mine. Sometimes (although rarely) I hardly dare to read it. ;/

Score one for self improvement and recovery! Huzzah! ;P

I'll second that. :)

Sunday, October 20, 2013 9:35:00 AM  
Blogger Xul said...

Oh, my poor Arekino, methinks you've been marinating in socialism too long. All the fight has been conditioned out of you. :/ We colonials are come from the rebellious and nonconformist stock. Lots of Saxon DNA which can recognize when things are not right(see that Kipling poem ;P).

You're never going to take the fire from this fire dragon. ;P

I still get an adrenalin rush every time someone responds to a comment of mine.

I was doing a bit of research the other night, and I stumbled upon something about brain connections and emotions. I'm going to have to go back and re-read it because I only skimmed through and bookmarked it for later. It had made reference to traumatic events and emotions making a "file" and any time you get in a similar situation the file gets pulled automatically. You can't erase the file but you can learn to re-write it.

I had one of those responses the other night. I was only *thinking* of something(can't remember what it was ATM)and I started getting a massive anxiety response. I remember thinking that, "Damn, my body is still on overdrive even thought what I'm thinking about doesn't bother me on an emotional level." It was a weird disconnect for me.

I'll second that. :)

I knew that you would understand. :)

Sunday, October 20, 2013 11:59:00 AM  
Anonymous arekino said...

We colonials are come from the rebellious and nonconformist stock.

Yes, you came from us, the *original* rebellious and nonconformist stock. ;P

see that Kipling poem ;P

You mean “The Wrath of the Awakened Saxon.”? It's about righteous indignation, isn't it?

You're never going to take the fire from this fire dragon. ;P

I don't know what you mean by that. I would never try to take your fire.

You can't erase the file but you can learn to re-write it.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "re-write it". I suppose that you can give it a different context.

Sunday, October 20, 2013 3:22:00 PM  
Blogger Xul said...

Yes, you came from us, the *original* rebellious and nonconformist stock. ;P

Yes, all the wild ones came over here and left the more docile ones behind. So y'all have more dociles breeding and spreading the docile DNA around. All your De Ruyter types left the party a long time ago. I think you lot are due for fiery infusion! ;P ;P ;P

You mean “The Wrath of the Awakened Saxon.”? It's about righteous indignation, isn't it?

I believe so. That's the one about the stubborn Saxon and that you shouldn't mess with him when he's got his dander up. I also like that other one by Kipling "The Dutch in the Medway", too. Good stuff! ;P

We have lots of Scottish Braveheart stock, too, that'll give ya the "sun" and the "moon" if ya catch my drift! ;P ;P ;P

I don't know what you mean by that. I would never try to take your fire.

Not literally. It's a figure of speech. I'm a fire dragon in the Chinese zodiac. We're known for being, well...rather fiery. I'll always be a hot-blooded type. ;D

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "re-write it". I suppose that you can give it a different context.

I'm going to have to go re-read the article. I only skimmed it. One example given was people who had been in a car accident not wanting to ride in a car. That being in a car brought back the trauma of the car accident even though the car that person might be in ATM was perfectly fine and not in the accident. Anyhoo, I'll have to see if I bookmarked the article.

Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:46:00 PM  
Blogger Xul said...

In other news, my lunatic dadster dropped by unannounced today for a shouting match. I've told that asshole a thousand times that I don't keep my cell phone turned on and not to call it. If he needs to say something, to call the house phone. Well, he just can't get it through his thick skull and keeps calling my cell and when I don't answer he gets pissed off. His last voice mail that he left on there was that if I didn't answer the phone that he was going to call the police on me. Like they really want to be involved in his nonsense. So he comes over here and starts banging on the door. I was in my bedroom and popped out to the top of the stairs. Momster was in the kitchen and she could see out the window to the porch and she was acting like it was a Jehovah's Witness or something, so I shrugged and went back to my room to watch the ball game that was on. Well the banging continued and I just figured that it was some determined JW's to be banging a second time. By the third round, I figured that it might be him. I popped back to the top of the stairs and momster said that it was him and that I should maybe go out to see what he wanted. By that time, he had himself worked into a massive froth and I could here him cussing LOUDLY to himself for all the neighbors to hear(where I live, the acoustics bounce voices about so that the neighbors can hear everything)and then he rings up the house phone and starts shouting on the answering machine. So I go out to try to get him to STFU but it only gets him going worse. Then he says something like, "Well if you don't want to talk to me , good-bye!" like he's telling me that I can leave. I'm like WTF? You're at *my* house telling me that *I* can leave? That's so crazy. And he's like 'well I'll just continue to stand here and shout' at that point I said that this is stupid and pointless and went back in the house. And BTW, he had to bring that fucking parrot of his over here and has the bird perched on his finger as he's shouting at me so then the bird mimics whatever he does and starts screeching as loud as it can. So I had to deal with the two of them screeching at the same time. Ugh, massive facepalm.

Ya know, both of the parentals are fucking nuts, but he is like certifiable mental case nuts whereas my mother can be reasonable at times. I have no clue what is wrong with him. PD? Some kind of mild Asperger's or autism? IDK, whatever it is it's NOT NORMAL. At least with my mother the diagnosis is pretty easy.

Oy vey! Got me wound up for the better part of the day. OUAT can't come fast enough!

Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:46:00 PM  
Anonymous arekino said...

all the wild ones came over here and left the more docile ones behind.

You may have a point. I mean, we haven't started any wars lately. Still, I wouldn't call the Dutch conformist.

I don't keep my cell phone turned on and not to call it.

Do you have a smart phone or an older one?

has the bird perched on his finger as he's shouting at me so then the bird mimics whatever he does and starts screeching as loud as it can.

LOL that's hilarious! :D

His last voice mail that he left on there was that if I didn't answer the phone that he was going to call the police on me.

Is that because of the way your mother attacked you last time? Was he worried?

OUAT can't come fast enough!

Well, some healthy escapism can be good for the soul. :P

Monday, October 21, 2013 5:02:00 AM  
Blogger Xul said...

I wouldn't call the Dutch conformist.

Yeah, you folks are definitely...different. ;P ;D

Do you have a smart phone or an older one?

One that is quite ancient by technological standards--a several year old flip-type.

Is that because of the way your mother attacked you last time? Was he worried?

More of a tactic to get me to call. It's kinda stupid as a)it's like using the cops to help him harass me, b) I'm an adult and the cops don't give a shit about things like that(they don't do anything when actual crimes are committed, why would they come out to scold me into calling my father?) and c) not returning calls is not a crime. There's soooo many reasons why I don't want to deal with him. As bad as my mother can be, he's worse.

Last night's OUAT episode was okay. There was a *very* funny Regina moment. They really *are* giving her my mannerisms now. LOL

Sooooo my most favorite Ninja, what are you up to?

Monday, October 21, 2013 2:07:00 PM  
Anonymous arekino said...

One that is quite ancient by technological standards--a several year old flip-type.

Have you ever thought of getting a new one?

what are you up to?

I got my other ear washed clean his morning. My sore ear is 85.7% better. I listened to some music. :)

I also read some chapters of a novel called "Wold War Z". I've seen the movie, which was... okay. The book is about as okay. It just seems like it was written for a sixteen year old. I couldn't finish it.

Monday, October 21, 2013 2:50:00 PM  
Blogger Xul said...

Have you ever thought of getting a new one?

The one I have is part of a share plan w/momster. If it was up to me, I'd just get one of those "disposable" type pay as you go ones. I don't need a fancy one.

I got my other ear washed clean his morning. My sore ear is 85.7% better. I listened to some music. :)

Yay! Were your ears filled with lots of wax and goop? Ear pain is no fun. Glad you are feeling better. :)

"Wold War Z"

I've neither read the book nor seen the movie. The CGI on the movie trailer looked so incredibly lame like it was made by 12 y/o's. If it ever comes on the dish I don't think I could bring myself to watch it. You are justified in not finishing. :/

In other news, there was a joint effort in making some empanadas last night. They turned out pretty yummy. :) I'm off to have one now. ;P

Monday, October 21, 2013 5:30:00 PM  
Anonymous arekino said...

Were your ears filled with lots of wax and goop?

The right one was. The left one not so much.

there was a joint effort in making some empanadas last night.

What were the filled with? My dad happened to make some a couple of day ago filled with mostly pureed vegetables and some cheese.

Tuesday, October 22, 2013 5:20:00 AM  
Blogger Xul said...

What were the filled with?

Ground beef, tomatoes, onions, sultanas, green olives stuffed with pimiento, jalapeno peppers, green bell peppers, some regular raisins, and seasoned with garlic, cumin, salt and pepper. All the ingredients except the sultanas and regular raising were chopped up and cooked in a big pan, then put into the dough and baked until golden brown. Very, very yummy! :)

Okay, I'm kinda out of things to post on unless you want one on my nutty parental units. That's the only subject that I can think of ATM that I could do a good rant on. Unless you have some ideas? Anything ya want to know about?

Tuesday, October 22, 2013 2:25:00 PM  
Anonymous arekino said...

unless you want one on my nutty parental units.

Sure, as long as it doesn't upset you too much.

Unless you have some ideas?

Let's see. Something work related? Or maybe you've met some odd people when shopping? Have you had interesting conversations with friends (other than me) lately? How's the exercising going? What was that re-writing traumatic memories all about? How's Florida doing? Seen any good movies lately? Have you ever though of dying your hair purple? Have you ever had a nickname? Do you think the person who leaves behind the poo is someone you know? If you could travel back in time and take one thing with you, what would it be?

Just off the top of my silly head. :)

Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:45:00 PM  

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